Curse

mf2 · Dec 26, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Just had a build idea and wanted to see what people's thoughts were or their experiences with a similar build.

Basically the idea is to make the toon R/Me and use the mesmer skill epidemic to spread nasty conditions around to enemies. Oh and this is PvE build, if that matters.

The skill breakout would be:

Light reflexes
hunters shot
pin down
concussion shot
burning arrow
apply poison (i would rather use poison arrow but cant use burning at same time)
savage shot (for skill interrupt) or forked arrow (damage)
epidemic

i just started playing again after about 3 years, so if this is uber stupid, cut me some slack lol

Xsiriss · Dec 26, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Incendiary arrows is the shindig for spreading conditions. IA+apply poison/barbed arrows(+poison tip sig). If it's daze you're after,you could use the PvE skill Technobabble (you'll need eotn).

Chthon · Dec 26, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Oh dear...
This build gets about a 0.5 out of 10. And that's being generous.
Let's see what we can do to explain WHY it's so bad, and maybe your next build can be better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mf2

epidemic

TBH, Epidemic is not a great skill. Adjacent isn't really a big enough range for effective condition spreading in most cases. About the only context where it's OK (not even particularly good, just OK) is BHA+Epidemic because of the way monster casters clump up. Generally, if you're serious about condition spreading builds, it's better to go Me/E or N/Me with Fevered Dreams or Extend Conditions. Epidemic rangers are really, really weak by comparison. (And that's why I'm not trying to fix your build by suggesting improvements, like I usually do -- the entire concept is hopelessly flawed.)

Quote:

Light reflexes

This skill has bad uptime even with Dwarven Stability. Without Dwarven Stability it's a joke. IAS is good, practically vital, for any martial-weapon-based build; but LF isn't a very good one.

Quote:

hunters shot

Repeat after me: Degen is weak in PvE. Got it? Hence bleeding is weak in PvE.

Quote:

pin down

Crippled is so-so in PvE. Not as bad as degen, but not a remarkably strong condition either. FD and EC builds can use it for mass aggro management (monster AI tends to stick to closer targets when crippled) or mass snares to set up for someone else's AoE damage, but Epidemic isn't going to give you enough spread to make those things work.

Quote:

concussion shot

This skill is expensive as hell, and the dazed only happens if you hit your interrupt. The risk-to-reward ratio is pretty bad, and even worse in HM because all monsters get fast casting bonuses. If you were running something like Prep Shot that mitigated the cost of missing, maybe C-Shot would be worth considering. In this build, it's a bad call.

Quote:

burning arrow

Repeat after me: Degen is weak in PvE.

Quote:

apply poison

Repeat after me: Degen is weak in PvE.

Quote:

savage shot

Best skill on your bar.

Quote:

or forked arrow

No. Terrible skill. Not even remotely close to being worth forcing your allies to not bring enchantments.

paddymew · Dec 26, 2009, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Use Fragility with condition-spreading skills, and you can make something out of it. If you don't, the build is too weak to be able to do anything. The only way conditions can be used effectively in PvE is by abusing their status as conditions along with other skills, instead of the conditions' effects themselves.

Fragility + conditions also makes a very nice friend for Discord heroes.

mf2 · Dec 27, 2009, 07:52 AM // 07:52

to start, thanks for the (in some cases brutally honest) responses.

I wasn't aware that degen was so awful in PvE, so the build idea I guess was just totally flawed to begin with. It just seemed that stacking all those things together and spreading them would be pretty cool. Like I said I haven't played in about 3 years, so I am just lost on a lot of the technical stuff. I just kind of look at skills and try to figure out what compliments each other. One of the main things I liked about the idea is I got a skill for my 2nd class that worked with my primary class that didnt require any skill pt investment at all, so I could put all my pts into ranger skills.

right now i have a vampiric green bow that i think is +15% dmg when my health is over 50%, so maybe i should look at some sort of barrage build. but i have also had a shocking horn bow of fortitude (i think thats what it was called) laying around in my stash, so I could alternatively look at using that with Ele in my secondary class and at the very least, take the skill that adds 5 or so light dmg.

again thanks for the tips for those of you who are actually bothering to help this lost soul get on track lol

Fay Vert · Dec 27, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

It's funny that conditions are so weak in PvE, given that anytime anyone asks for a buff to ranger damage, all the leet players come out and say rangers aren't for damage they are for conditions.

Bottom line, don't take too many people's opinions, test it your self and then you will know if it's good or not and stuff what other people think. (BTW BHA is the worst skill ever)

Tenebrae · Dec 27, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

It's funny that conditions are so weak in PvE, given that anytime anyone asks for a buff to ranger damage, all the leet players come out and say rangers aren't for damage they are for conditions.

Bottom line, don't take too many people's opinions, test it your self and then you will know if it's good or not and stuff what other people think. (BTW BHA is the worst skill ever)

Critical Hit post.

For the condition spreading matter , in pve you dont need much to do it. Just Incend A + Apply Poison and you are pretty much done. Does well with Fragility and "They are on Fire" but you have 5 more skill slots to fill . Pack some PvE skills and something useful for the current party setup and try.

mf2 · Dec 27, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Critical Hit post.

For the condition spreading matter , in pve you dont need much to do it. Just Incend A + Apply Poison and you are pretty much done. Does well with Fragility and "They are on Fire" but you have 5 more skill slots to fill . Pack some PvE skills and something useful for the current party setup and try.

well what i was doing basically was poison, burning, and bleeding, then hit epidemic. but since i haven't played for so long, i cant say at all whether it is effective or not compared to other builds. so i think i am actually going to retry this build with fragility+epidemic. before I pull i will use apply poison, then hit fragility, then with burning arrow and hunters shot, then epidemic. the thing that might be a little hard is the fragility part. when monsters start out clumped together, they usually scatter a bit after the first spell or attack. which means when i try to hit with those conditions and epidemic them they might not be as close together as I like. but if i remember right here is one more mesmer spell that gives 1 foe all the negative conditions in the area.

in PvE i dont see why it would be so bad, because a lot of times even the casters are dumb enough to clump together. also, enemy monk monsters seem to have a tough time removing all those conditions and healing all their buddies.

is there any particular gear setup i should concern myself with? i just stuck a +3 marksmanship rune on my head armor/mask. i also have a green vampiric bow (think its recurve but cant remember for sure).

Also, after looking through my heroes, I have a Necro that can potentially make this build a lot better. Enfeebling blood, weaken armor, and rotting flesh, and plague sending can also take advantage of the fragility/epidemic. so that's realistically 5 conditions that will trigger fragility, then 4 trigger again when they go away: bleeding, poison, disease, weakened armor, and weakness. if i throw in pin down that would be 6/4 (hunters shot and pin down won't go away until fragility's duration is over).

my skill setup would be: apply poison, hunters shot, burning arrow, throw dirt, fragility, epidemic, hypochondria, and then pin down or a preperation.

thanks again for the tips from the pros.

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 27, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Don't know if you actually understand why degen sucks in PvE, so I'll explain.

In PvE, killing things is easy. It's a matter of how quickly it can be done, as opposed to PvP where getting kills is a somewhat big deal. The thing with degen is that it needs time to get the damage out. For example, take a 24 second bleeding. If it lasts its full duration, it'll do 3*24*2=144 damage. However, any semi competent team will kill in 5 seconds or so, dropping the damage to 3*5*2=30. 30 damage out of one slot is pathetic; you're much better off just taking a +damage skill.

mf2 · Dec 28, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Don't know if you actually understand why degen sucks in PvE, so I'll explain.

In PvE, killing things is easy. It's a matter of how quickly it can be done, as opposed to PvP where getting kills is a somewhat big deal. The thing with degen is that it needs time to get the damage out. For example, take a 24 second bleeding. If it lasts its full duration, it'll do 3*24*2=144 damage. However, any semi competent team will kill in 5 seconds or so, dropping the damage to 3*5*2=30. 30 damage out of one slot is pathetic; you're much better off just taking a +damage skill.

i see. to be honest, i haven't had much luck getting teams together because i dont have the eye of the north expansion, where i suspect the majority of people playing are. some towns i go into have like 3 people in the sometimes including me lol

i have been using it with fragility, but its still only 13 damage when a condition is removed or added. i have noticed this triggers quite a bit if I equip my necro with some condition hexes. luckily the AI is smart enough on the heroes to where they do things that are usually useful lol

Tenebrae · Dec 29, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mf2

i see. to be honest, i haven't had much luck getting teams together because i dont have the eye of the north expansion, where i suspect the majority of people playing are. some towns i go into have like 3 people in the sometimes including me lol

Woah no Eotn . Right now builds are 3 PvE skills + something in a lot of cases. Degen should not be your main function but without PvE skills ... tsk , well try some Spear Beast Mastery builds if you can use some buffs from Heroes like SoH on Pet + MoP and Barbs or Turret builds , check Ranger forum .

WhiteAsIce · Dec 29, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I got an unorthodox condition build, it actually works nicely as a caller for Discordway:

Expertise 12+1+1
Deadly Arts 12
---
Lightning Reflexes/Whirling Defense
Throw Dirt
Iron Palm
Low Blow/A Touch of Guile/Lift Enchantment
Signet of Shadows
Assassin's Promise
"Finish Him!"
optional

It's a dumb-looking build, but it's gotten me through tough HM areas.

mf2 · Jan 01, 2010, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Woah no Eotn . Right now builds are 3 PvE skills + something in a lot of cases. Degen should not be your main function but without PvE skills ... tsk , well try some Spear Beast Mastery builds if you can use some buffs from Heroes like SoH on Pet + MoP and Barbs or Turret builds , check Ranger forum .

well since i only have core and nightfall, the only selection i really have as i understand it is never rampage alone, and i dont use beast mastery.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/PvE_...uick_reference

so while i'd like to have 3 PvE skills, looks like i could only have 1, and it's one i dont really see any use for :-/